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Shall we allow posts that are not strictly WordPress related?

Oct. 22, 2015

It's been on my mind for a while now and this submission triggered me to finally ask this question.

managewp.org/articles/10993/using-amazon-sns-to-build-good-habits-with-daily-sms-reminders#comments-section

That post is informative, developer related and I actually learned about a cool service. But it is not strictly WordPress related. In the past we used to automatically remove these kind of posts.

What do you say? If we start allowing it, where do we draw the next line?

Comment
18 votes   Flag
Ryan Love

I say yes!

I recently shared an article from Chris Lema, (managewp.org/articles/10988/you-won-t-help-anyone-if-you-re-broke) which was to do with business and pricing.

If you're a freelance WordPress developer, a web agency that uses WordPress, or a theme/plugin product creator, the article would have been helpful to you, but the article itself is not strictly related to WordPress.
It got 13 votes, so it was something that users here found helpful.

I think the criteria should simply be, "Does this article help a someone who utilizes WordPress is their work/life".

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Vladimir Prelovac

Hm, an article about how to run a restaurant business would help greatly someone who uses WordPress to run their restaurant business.

Perhaps "Does this article help a WordPress professional?" (someone making living from WordPress) would be a more accurate question to ask?

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Ryan Love

For sure! And for the reasons you stated!

I don't think it has to be anything overly complex, i.e. downvotes.

A simple question or two, such as your example "Does this article help a WordPress professional?"

Then if you feel the floodgates are opening and the content being shared on here isn't as relevant as everyone would like, change the question, or add a few more qualifiers.

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Ajay D'Souza

I think it's OK to allow articles beyond the WordPress world that would cater to developers, agencies etc.

e.g. an article on CSS or jQuery could count as a plus. However, I'd definitely not want to read articles that are too generic in nature.

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David McCan

It might be a fuzzy area as articles not mentioning WP about PHP, code editors, CSS, Linux, hosting, marketing, SEO, domain names, payment gateways, etc all become possible.

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David Gewirtz

That's the value of the vote-up/vote-down option. If something is way not WordPress-related (say, just a random jQuery tutorial), we can down vote it. But if it's of interest to most readers, and it gets up votes, then it's clearly a fit. I'd say let the crowd decide!

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Deleted Account

Your speed is exceeded only by your conciseness. Upvote! :)

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Deleted Account

I say let voting weed out topics that are too far off topic. How about downvoting? That way when people disagree about what is or is not relevant to WordPress, everybody's opinion counts.

I submitted an article on Envato coming to America that was flagged as "not relevant to WordPress". Different opinions...

a. The article is not specifically about WordPress. It's about an office and US law. Downvote.

b. Envato's decisions affect thousands of WordPress theme and plugin sellers. Upvote.

Both true but relevancy is in question so let upvotes and downvotes battle it out.

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Tom Harrigan

On downvoting:
The immediate challenge of 'downvoting' is how it affects the gaming mechanics of the site:
-how does a downvote change the downvoters own vote strength/karma. Downvotes need to have a price to the person doing the downvoting such that one will not simply downvote all articles that are not his or her own
-What is the strength of a downvote against a person, in both that articles ranking and the posters vote strength/karma.

Neither of these are overly complex to figure out, but it does require time investment to implement. Personally I'd like to see that this functionality is actually needed before time is spent building it. Features should be built when there is a problem that needs addressing, and I'm not sure that there is one in this case. A shared post not getting votes is essentially the same as getting downvotes, as a users vote strength goes down for sharing articles that do not get upvoted.

------------

On not strictly WP-related articles:
The above is a tangent and straying from the original topic. Vlad, the article you mention, I was internally debating whether to flag or not. I don't think I did because there is developer value in the WordPress space for learning how to implement this kind of functionality. There are many in the community that are "WordPress developers" and I think programming articles from within the PHP community that one may not otherwise see directly in the WP bubble is beneficial in the growth of developers in our space.

I struggle with certain other topics though and haven't formed strong opinions for design/css/markup types of articles as these are things that are more universal in web development and don't have a "WordPress way" of doing them, as opposed to PHP/WP development where there can be a "WordPress way" and a general way of doing things; understanding what's underneath the WP code and the underlying PHP clearly seems to be beneficial though.

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Vladimir Prelovac

Yeah, I am thinking of a WP Pro or just Pro category which would then allow for non-WordPress articles but of interest to WordPress professionals (whether entrepreneurship, copywriting, branding, development...)

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Jason Resnick

I would tend to agree on this path here about creating a category. There's a fine line between an article that's in the ether vs an article with some value to those within the WordPress space.

It's something that I wrestle with when I do my own posts. I try to make sure that when I post, I'm posting something of value to the readers who are in the WP space, whether that's code snippets, best practices, or business.

That last category of business is tough too. Because business could be just that general category where people dump anything into. However since there has been an effort put forth to discuss business at WordCamps, meet-ups and other venues, I think having articles being submitted that aren't necessarily pointed directly at WordPress could definitely be relevant to those in WordPress.

For example, my talk next week at WCNYC is about productizing your WordPress service. Brian Casel has been talking about this for years on his blog and it's been great to implement things within my business that he's spoken about. If I didn't add "WordPress" into the title and spun it for those of us in WordPress, I may not be speaking at all about it. But I feel that there's plenty of us out there that can find value in going through that exercise.

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Vova Feldman

Looking forward for your presentation Jason!

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Jason Resnick

Thanks Vova -- did you happen to catch it? Curious your thoughts on it

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Vova Feldman

Hi Jason, unfortunately I wasn't able to catch it :( Was it recorded?

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Jason Resnick

I'm sure it was, not sure how long it takes to get to wordpress.tv though.

If you want my slides are at wcnyc15.rezzz.com - but obviously they are just slides and sometimes hard to figure out with the context of the talk.

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Vova Feldman

Loved the slides, happy to take this conversation to skype or face2face (I'm in Brooklyn) and share experiences / tips / practices. My skype is vovafeldman. LMK

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Vova Feldman

There's a LOT of valuable content from the outside world of WordPress which could be VERY valuable for the WordPress community. So I say - YES!

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Vladimir Prelovac

Dont you already find that content elsewhere? Reddit, HN, Inbound.org? Our advantage is that the content you can find here is not available anywhere in this form.

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Vova Feldman

Yep - the content can be found outside. But the content on Reddit / HN / whatever is very broad and not necessarily have any applications to the WordPress world.

For instance, an article about coding practices in Java is not relevant for MWP. Having said that, a cover of PHP7 upcoming features is very relevant, even if WordPress is not mentioned at all in the post.

I'm not saying that MWP should lose the WP identity, I just think that it would be valuable to open it a little, to enable content which does has relation to the WP community, but not necessarily focus only on WP.

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Ahmad Awais

NO and YES!

I think there is no need of any announcement or allowance. If you allow irrelevant content, then ManageWP.org might become a content curation site (there are many). I think MWP.org should stay related/relevant to WordPress.

All of that said, any article that is somewhat related to WordPress or Web Development with PHP, OOP, etc. can be allowed. The current system does a great job at sorting the articles by the number of upvotes. If it is related to WP, it will automagically get a good number of upvotes. If it is not relevant, it won't get noticed.

Any article that is related to WordPress or if it can be helpful for WordPress developers should be allowed. But allowing everything else on the web won't really add value, it will add to the clutter and bad user experience for those who visit MWP.org, daily, to find out what's new with the WordPress community.

Food for thought!

The article you mentioned above is really a good one. I already use SNS by AWS, though, if it were written with WordPress context in mind that would have added more value to MWP.org.

E.g. Setting up AWS SNS to get notifications whenever a post gets published on your Multi-Author blog.

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Vladimir Prelovac

One mechanism I would avoid is downvote - currently because of the development complexity to introduce it.

The problem is not just with dev articles - one could share an article about entrepreneurship in the business category, a tutorial how to use slack for your team in the tutorials section etc. And that becomes way too broad very quickly. Unless we rely on the simple flag mechanism to try and keep only the best ones.

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Appreplica

I'd like to see a lot more topics discussed and posted.

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Deleted Account

Well no. I read ManageWP because of its WordPress articles curation. if this is the case, I strongly recommend to have mechanism to let only WordPress articles appear in the stream (ie. filters).

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Dipak C. Gajjar Ⓦ

I agree with you some way :)

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Tim Nash

I held off commenting to see which way people would go.

The only reason for someone to visit ManageWP.org is to get a dose of WordPress specific content, if we change the rules then it's going to become a total nightmare to moderate. Currently moderation is done by an exceedingly small team, with a few regular contributors also helping.

Suddenly moderators will now need to be experts in dozens of specialities if there is any hope to keep quality of articles high. How are they meant to be able to judge the quality of an article well out of their natural field.

Then there is the problem, how do you stop it, how unrelated is it, suddenly a horrible slippery slope will occur where we all end up reading top 10 hair styles in Australia.

TLDR;
It will mean Vlad will loose his hair,
You will spend less time reading articles and hitting flag,
You will leave ManageWP community saying "it's just not as good as it was"

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Vladimir Prelovac

Tim is right, this would cause me to loose my hair. So my idea would be to introduce the Pro category only if someone else (two people preferably) would volunteer to monitor and moderate all links submitted to this category.

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Tom Harrigan

Happy to

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Vladimir Prelovac

Can you find someone to join you?

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Tom Harrigan

Yea I'll shoot some messages around

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Tom Harrigan

Jason Resnick is up for joining me on this

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